Virginia Goes All-In on Indoor Farming with Secretary of Agriculture Matt Lohr

Harry Duran [0:00 - 0:05]: So, Matt Lohr, Virginia secretary of agriculture and forestry, thank you so much for joining me on the vertical farming podcast.

Matt Lohr [0:05 - 0:08]: Thank you, Harry. Appreciate the chat and share with you today.

Harry Duran [0:08 - 0:35]: Yeah, it seems like there's been a lot of activity happening in Virginia specifically related to CEA. So I'm really excited to get your take on how that happened, why it's happening, and what it's like leading the charge in this. But I thought I'd rewind the clock back a little bit. You have a varied background in agriculture, it seems. Been in and out of agriculture for a while, in public service for a while. But as it regards agriculture, has Virginia always been your home, and has agriculture always been part of, like, your DNA?

Matt Lohr [0:35 - 1:31]: Yeah. Well, again, thanks for the chance to come and share with you today, and I am very blessed. I'm a fifth generation farmer in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, which is one of the breadbaskets of the country when it comes to ag production. Rockingham county literally is one of the top, I think, 30 or 40 counties in the country. And as far as ag production, so born and raised and really farming and agriculture have been my life. As a young child, I remember my earliest memories were walking alongside of my grandfather out on the farm and learning a love of the land, a love of conservation. And so I pride myself, and not just being a fifth generation farmer, but someone who appreciates the importance, the impact and how we need to preserve and save it. We have conservation easements on our farm to make sure that my kids can be the 6th generation. And so really, agriculture is in my life. And really, every part, part of my career over the last 30 years has been directly tied back to supporting the agricultural industry.

Harry Duran [1:31 - 1:53]: I must make for a lot of memories. And you talk about five generations. Do you worry? Sometimes? I know because of this meeting with podcasting, now we're hearing stories being recorded and being preserved of our parents or our grandparents. And obviously, a lot of that technology wasn't around back then. So how has your family found ways to preserve those stories and that lineage and that rich history?

Matt Lohr [1:53 - 3:06]: I'm very blessed that on our farm, in fact, if you look behind me on that wall is a picture of my farm from the 1950s that actually, when my grandparents passed away, I had the chance to get that, and I keep it in my office because it's such a reminder. I also have a picture from my great great grandparents from the 1880s who started the farm. That's a great reminder as well. On our farm, we have my house, my sister's house, my parents house and then the house that my dad was born in where my grandparents used to live. I've grown up around family, and even now my grandparents or my kids are very close with their grandparents. And it's about storytelling, as you say. And we take a lot of pictures and we talk about the past. As I mentioned, being able to protect our entire farm with permanent conservation Eastman means that it will remain a farm forever. And so I think that's a nice legacy that I can leave for my kids, is that it's just the farm is so much a part of me. I work in Richmond now and live in Richmond, which is about 2 hours away. But every weekend I get back to the farm, and it's an active farm with poultry and cattle and row crops. So even though I'm not there to farm it every day, it's still actively being farmed. And I love. There's no place I'm happier than being back on the land.

Harry Duran [3:06 - 3:42]: I can start to relate to that. That's actually what you would consider a city guy. I grew up in New York and I lived in LA for a stretch, but now I'm in Minnesota, if the wood paneling doesn't give some of that away. But we just got our first five chicks, so. And we just finished building the coop over the weekend, so we dip our toes in the. It's about an acre of land here, and there's. We just fenced off some garden area as well, because we've got deer coming up. So there is something magical about this being so close to the source of your own food and eating food that you've raised and grown, or even animals and that you've grown as well. I can't imagine there's a better feeling than that. And it's nice to be able to experience that firsthand.

Matt Lohr [3:42 - 4:34]: Yeah. And, you know, really this, this kind of ties into the importance of indoor farming. I think one thing we learned during COVID is that people really where their food comes from, like who's raising it? They want to know the farmer in many cases. And out of all the labels that we see on our food and stores, holes and studies have shown that the one that generates the most attention is local. And so I think that really, for me, is one of the things that is so exciting about indoor farming is you can harvest lettuce and it can be in a store the next day versus growing it outdoors in California, and it's seven days later when it gets into the store. So that's a big part of it. And to your point about raising five chicks? I think more people are just very interested in connecting with the land, and their food is very important. And I fully support all things local and assisting our producers to be able to have that experience and to serve their local communities with people who want to buy local food.

Harry Duran [4:35 - 4:41]: Nice segue. As you mentioned, the word serving. I'm curious, when was your first inkling that you wanted to enter public service?

Matt Lohr [4:41 - 6:05]: Yeah, that's a great question. I tell people all the time. I grew up in a family where public service was stressed from day one. My father was very active with church, the Ruitton Club, a service club community. My parents were active in the volunteer rescue squad and fire department for their entire career. And so I grew up around people who served. And so for me, my first chance to serve was a state international officer for the FFA organization and future Farmers of America. And so I took a year out of college for both the state and then another year out as a national officer and really dedicated my time for two years serving the ag industry and speaking in schools and communities and lobbying for agriculture. And so I learned pretty early on that I really wanted to have a career in advocacy and public service. And I knew I'd always have a career in production agriculture. But I guess throughout my time in FFA, I learned that I wanted to combine that with a way to help lead the industry as well. When I was 26, 25, served in the local planning commission for my county, which helped on zoning and regulations issues. And then when I was 28 or 29, I was elected to the county school board. And then from there, I served in our state general assembly as a member of the house of Delegates and kind of went from there. But, yeah, I guess from an early age, I knew that I wanted to have a life of service, especially as it relates to agriculture.

Harry Duran [6:06 - 6:32]: Why do you think that that's an important thing for people to consider who have not thought about it before? Because, you know, you mentioned being on councils and even working with FFA. There's something about understanding, like the inner machinations of how government works sometimes. Now, I think a lot of times as citizens, we just see it from the outside and we get frustrated with things don't go as they should. And I think having the experience of being on the inside and seeing what happens is probably helpful.

Matt Lohr [6:32 - 8:09]: Absolutely. And I give speeches and talk about the importance of advocacy and especially with the ag community. Rural Virginia and rural communities across the country now are outnumbered by our urban populations. And I give an analogy in Virginia, for example, the last survey showed that if you start in Washington, DC, and you go south on interstate 95 to Richmond, and then you go east an hour and a half over to Virginia beach and the Hampton Roads area, that's a small sliver geographically of the state of Virginia. It takes a couple hours to drive that. But the last census showed that 77% of Virginia's population was right along that area. And it's very urban. There's not a ton of agriculture in that area anymore. So really, our urban legislators are making policy for the industry, and many of them don't understand. When I was in the member of the General Assembly 20 years ago, I was the only elected farmer in both the House and Senate. So for several years, I had a chance to be like the farmer voice. But I learned it's not necessarily that urban legislators are anti agriculture. They just don't know. They haven't been on farms or had connections. And so there was nothing more exciting for me than to have someone from Fairfax County, Virginia, say, I want to support agriculture, but I don't understand how this bill will do that and to be able to explain that and build those connections. And so, really, it all comes down to relationships. You've got to get to know your elected officials, because those are the folks that are making decisions for the industry, and many times, they don't understand what we do. So, very, very important. And I've tried to impart that wisdom wherever I can.

Harry Duran [8:09 - 8:19]: The groups or what's the story? I always like to tie everything back to an origin story of, like, did you always have eyes for secretary of agriculture and forestry? Or how did that come about?

Matt Lohr [8:19 - 10:18]: Yeah, so great question. So years ago, I guess the answer is yes. This was the position that I've thought about for most of my adult life. And in Virginia, we have a commissioner of agriculture and consumer services, which oversees our state Department of agriculture, and then we have a secretary, which I'm a cabinet level position, working with Governor Youngkin, and I oversee the department of AG, the Department of Forestry, and our Virginia Racing Commission, our horse racing industry. So 15 years ago, under Governor McDonnell, I was appointed to be the commissioner of the Department of agriculture and Consumer Services. So I had a chance to run an agency. I had a boss who was secretary, and so I knew the process. And it was a goal at that time to one day become secretary, went to the private sector for a while. Then I went to USDA and the Trump administration, and I ran the Natural Resources Conservation Service, which is the conservation agency for USDA, and 10,000 employees and 3000 offices across the country was a great experience and an opportunity. But as you know, these positions are appointed. And it had been a long time since Virginia had had a republican governor. And so you just, it's a matter of serving, and then sometimes the stars align and the party you affiliate with gets elected, and then you have these kinds of opportunities. So I guess the short answer is yes. I've dreamed of this position for a long time. And the long answer is, you just never know when, when those opportunities are going to present itself. But it's been a great honor. Governor Youngkin has been such a great champion for, for all things agriculture, our largest industry. And he gets it. He's a business guy. He understands the economics of it. And he's been the one that really leaned in early on about making Virginia a leader in indoor farming. And so I just had a conversation with him after cabinet today about a question he had and the efforts we're doing. And so it's great when your boss supports it and gives you the ability to just make it happen. And so it's been an exciting run the last two and a half years.

Harry Duran [10:19 - 10:23]: Sure, this answer depends on the day I ask you, but what's that? What's a typical day in the life for Matt?

Matt Lohr [10:23 - 11:42]: Laura, it really depends. During the legislative session, which is basically January and February, we're tied to Richmond a lot more with meetings and whether it's working with legislators to help them understand bills that are happening or testifying before a committee. That's a lot of our day for those two months now, the session's done. On average, about half of my time is spent outside of Richmond, and then the other half is here, you know, running the day to day on the agencies. But I travel a lot. And so, for example, last week I was down in southeastern Virginia visiting a seafood research experiment station. I ended up in Virginia Tech for a meeting and then celebrating the departure of our retiring dean of the College of Ag and life Sciences at tech to lots and lots of forums and summits. All of our industry groups have trade groups and conferences. And so just a lot of time really promoting the industry. I've got some international travel coming up as it ties relates to CEA, to Amsterdam. So, yeah, there's just never the same day twice. But it's so exciting for me personally. I like being on the road, getting out of Richmond, taking the tie off, meeting with our groups, our farmers, our ad groups. That's the best day. But, of course, you can't be on the road every day. You've got to be in Richmond to do the day to day as well.

Harry Duran [11:43 - 11:53]: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So when did you start to become aware of or how did you start to grow your relationship with CEA? Coming in from traditional, with that huge experience of traditional Ag.

Matt Lohr [11:54 - 14:51]: Yeah. So, you know, Governor Youngkin has been the first governor to really, like, plant the flag and say, we want to be the destination, but the reality is Virginia has been working in this space for, you know, the last decade or so. And so I first became aware back home where I live in Rockingham, about ten years ago, there was a company that's now solely organic, but they were called Shenandoah growers in the beginning, literally 2 miles from my house. And so I've worked with those guys and seen that company grow, and I've seen the benefits and kind of watched them expand. So that's really when I first became aware of the importance and the benefits of indoor farming. So when I first became secretary, the governor was very passionate about the next generation and the future of our food production. And we had a long conversation, like, right after we both took office almost three years ago, and it was really about where we are with the current economy, and then. But where do we go from here? The thing about CEA that's so great for us in Virginia is that we don't have a ton of outdoor produce production right now. Right. As you know, California, Arizona, Florida, I mean, those are the big hotspots of where the produce has gone. So the governor wasn't looking for something that was going to compete or have different interests against each other. This is growing our industry, but it's growing it in a way where it's giving more people the opportunity. And so as we talked about indoor farming and the benefits and less resources, less water, food safety issues, the length of shelf life, all of those things that make it much more beneficial. We closed that meeting, and he said, well, you know, the goal is simple. We just, by the end of our term, we want to be the number one destination in the world. And so we took that challenge and really rolled up our sleeves. And, of course, this kind of coincided with the plenty announcing they were coming to Virginia, which the team had worked a lot in that space. They were the big one. Aero farms, of course, they're the largest vertical farm in the world as far as one building. We know we had their ribbon cutting last year, and so we already had some momentum, but we also have a lot of smaller companies as well. And so we can get into all of the things of what makes Virginia great. But I guess what we've been able to do in the last three years is kind of build on that momentum. And I've been very fortunate to travel to numerous events and CEA conferences now around the world. And every time that I go, I usually get to be on some type of panel or a fireside chat or actually a keynote presentation, talk about what Virginia is doing and what we're doing. We're not going to be. As you know, the thing that makes CEA so important is it's local. Right? So we can't be the CEA producer for the entire country. That defeats the whole purpose. But we've got a system in place and a framework and a foundation that other states and other parts around the country, I think, can replicate and really grow this part of the agriculture.

Harry Duran [14:51 - 15:11]: In your talk, what seems to be the common question people are asking you? Because I know you've been on a couple of panels, and obviously there's a big indoor icon cea event in October, which is putting the spotlight on Virginia as well. So as you have these conversations, these chats and these panels, what are people asking? What are their concerns or questions about what you're working on?

Matt Lohr [15:11 - 17:21]: Yeah, I think the first question is they want to know what we're doing. Like, what makes Virginia so attractive and part of it. You know, we're blessed to be in a great geographical spot, right? You know, we're in a two days drive of 75% of the entire us population centered, right. Directly in the mid Atlantic, where you can be in Florida in 12 hours or Boston in 12 hours. So that's just good luck, right? I mean, we can't change that, but I think we've been able to build on that. And people, other states want to say, hey, what are you doing? And we talked about the state investment that we do. We've had legislation passed for tax incentives and credits. We have different agencies that are co working together to offer various incentives to attract them. We've got a great research component through our Institute of Advanced Learning and Research. We're doing work with our community colleges and our high schools and our middle schools all the way up to establishing an actual bachelor's degree at Virginia Tech in vertical farm or in CEA. So it's multifaceted. So I think the first question is, what are we doing? And then we kind of go through that long litany. But the other thing is, how are we doing it? And I think there's several ways to answer that. First of all, we have a governor who's not afraid to say, we want to be the leader. So that makes it nice. His pulpit is pretty big in Virginia and around the country, so that's a great way. But then it's about building relationships. You know, we had legislation passed that was, it was bipartisan. We had, Democrats and Republicans both voted for legislation because they, they see it. This is not a partisan issue. And so I think it's about education. It's about being able to build those relationships within our general assembly. But the other part is, it's a lot of work. We'll travel anywhere in the world to visit with the prospective company, and we go to these events and we meet with companies we follow up to try to help them and meet their needs. And even the ones that don't end up choosing Virginia, we like to share how we can help, and it's a great conversation. So I think that's a lot of things that we're doing. And I think for a lot of states, they want to know, hey, what's happening in Virginia? Why are people wanting to come there? And it's a great story to tell.

Harry Duran [17:21 - 17:45]: As you've broadened your education about everything that's happening in the CEA space. Obviously a lot of is technology related and just new ways of growing different than traditional ag. So how has that education process been for you in terms of, like, seeing, going to these conferences and sometimes you feel like you're on a technology show instead of a farming show because there's so many innovations, robotics, AI, so many interesting happening in the space.

Matt Lohr [17:45 - 19:23]: It's incredible. I love it. And so we have around 20 CEA companies in Virginia, and I've visited, I think, all of them. And the thing that I love is that they're all a little different. They all have their own secret sauce, whether it's a vertical farm or a greenhouse, the type of lighting or the type of automation or the types of products they're producing, they all have something a little different. And I think that's what's so cool to see firsthand, because we're not just monopolizing one particular way of doing things. But you're right, the technology is incredible. I'm very excited to travel to Amsterdam for Greentech in June. Never been. But as you know, the Dutch are the world leader in greenhouse and in food production, and they've got a great story to tell. So I'm so excited to go and see and tour and visit and learn, hopefully recruit a company or two back to the states and back to Virginia. But I think that technology piece has been the most exciting. The other thing that I love to see is, you know, you've got the plenty's and the aero farms and the great big companies that have the venture capitalists backing them for hundreds millions of dollars. But yet we also have companies. There's a company called Beanstalk in Fairfax county. Two brothers, they did not have an ag background at all. They were very focused on engineering and technology, but they found a way to combine that. They started their own small company and maybe looking to expand and grow that. So I love seeing the companies that are of all sizes. We have some in downtown Arlington, which is a suburb of Washington DC. And again, it serves that local niche. So some are very small, some are very large, but it's great to see how they are all different, but they all serve a great purpose.

Harry Duran [19:23 - 19:28]: I've got to make sure to get that list from you. I want to get some of those founders on the show as well.

Matt Lohr [19:28 - 20:13]: Oh yeah, absolutely. They love to talk about what they're doing. And I will say another company that's so unique is called Babylon Farms. And you may have met Alexander and his team, but again, not traditional ag folks. I went to Uva and had this idea and they build a small scale models where they sell to universities and hospitals. And so it's not really for home use, but it's more for community use. And they sell and the technology, how they can monitor the growing in somebody's operation all the way across the country. It's fascinating to see that, but it's all about just making people aware that indoor farming is real and for all the great benefits, how can we have more opportunities and more ways for people to connect and to take advantage of that?

Harry Duran [20:13 - 20:44]: Yeah. And I think what's interesting is typically when you see something like a farm bill, and historically it's always been for traditional ag. And I think a lot of the conversations within the CEA space is that's not for us. And so I think Virginia is leading the way. And some of the things you've talked about already having a seat at the table really is what CEA and indoor farming is looking for, or even figuring out a way to change the dynamics of the conversation. So when you think farm Bill and you realize none of it is going to support anything that's happening in the vertical farming space, well, it's so true.

Matt Lohr [20:44 - 21:52]: So we hosted a farm bill listening session with Chairman Thompson last summer, and that was a part of the conversation. I'm a traditional farmer. I appreciate the crop support and the livestock support that we have for our major commodities, because it's very helpful. But there's nothing like that for indoor farming. And as you know, we're not going to see indoor farming really explode until the cost of production can come down to actually compete. You know, right now, I think indoor farming, when it comes to lettuce, production is less than 10% of the country. And there's a reason for that because it's just, it costs more to produce it. So until we can get the playing field a little more level, once we do that, we're going to see an explosion. And I think part of that can happen through the farm bill is we subsidize almost all of our farmers and their products that they produce, except our indoor farms. So, as you know, I just saw today where the house is getting ready to mark up the farm bill. So I think things are finally moving, and we're hoping, I mean, I would love to see one happen this summer, but who knows the schedule of Congress, but it's happening, and I'm excited to see, hopefully, there'll be some provisions in that that can benefit indoor farming.

Harry Duran [21:52 - 21:58]: Have you come across in your trips to these farms and any crops that surprised you that they were able to grow indoors?

Matt Lohr [21:58 - 23:38]: Yeah. And that's continuing to grow. Right. And I mean, like strawberries, for example, that plenty is going to be focusing on strawberry production on their first component of their campus. And to see the technology and the robotics and how they do that is phenomenal. But I think the really cool thing, well, there's two cool things. A lot of CEA is aimed at improving the genetics and the crops that then can be grown outside. So we're never going to replace outdoor farming, but even we can use indoor farming as a way to improve the genetics and improve the ability for these outdoor crops to grow, which has been really cool. But then I think we're going to continue to see more and more types of crops to be able to be grown indoors. So the technology is just beginning. We're at, like, at the cutting edge. And I tell people we're always going to need outdoor. We're not going to grow all the corn and soybeans we need in greenhouses, and we're just not going to do it. But I think there certainly is a place for all type of agriculture. And my hope is that we're going to continue to see the indoor farming component grow and take out a bigger chunk. Another thing I'll mention that's interesting, we've got a company in Virginia that's partnered with one of the largest outdoor farms out on the west coast. And so even as these large outdoor farms of, say, lettuce, they see what's happening. And now they're being big players in a lot of these indoor farming companies as a way to get on board and not be left behind. And I think it's a great synergy. I think we'll always have, as I said, outdoor production. But when our outdoor farms are beginning to invest and partner with our indoor farms, I think it's going to be a great, great collaboration because you're related.

Harry Duran [23:38 - 24:06]: And party responsibility is also forestry. I've seen a lot of interesting experiments of, like growing saplings or starting them indoors. And I know theres a couple companies were looking at that as a start. So it may not be, to your point, the place where you finish, obviously growing something like a tree, but experimenting, if you can make that first process, those first six weeks of growth much faster indoors because you can control the elements, I think theres some interesting things happening in that space as well.

Matt Lohr [24:06 - 24:36]: Absolutely. For sure. For sure. And also the aquaculture seafood component as well. Weve got Blue Ridge aquaculture in Virginia, and there are several other companies that are kind of looking at Virginia, whether it's various types of fish production, I think, again, it's all done inside. And even when you can combine that with the way of using the waste from growing the fish to actually fertilize the lettuce next door, those types of products, our projects are very exciting as well. And so I think there's just so much potential in this space that we're.

Harry Duran [24:36 - 24:45]: Just at the cutting edge of, yeah, very exciting times. A couple more questions as we get close to wrapping up. What is a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

Matt Lohr [24:46 - 24:50]: Wow. So I guess, as we know, it's expensive, right?

Harry Duran [24:50 - 24:50]: Yeah.

Matt Lohr [24:50 - 26:09]: And two years ago, the economy was in a much better place. You know, there was a lot more venture capital money out there. Interest rates were at 4% instead of 9%. And so we've had some companies not only in Virginia and around the country that have not made it right. And so I guess for me, one of the hard questions I wrestle with is, are we at a point where we're going to be able to continue our growth as the economy doesn't improve? Interest rates are high. We see companies that kind of come and go. What does that look like? And so it is a challenge that we have being able to balance that. And again, I think there's always going to be potential and opportunities. But many times you'll have an initial company come in and say you spend $100 million, they file bankruptcy, and then the next company that comes in can buy it for $0.10 on the dollar. And then they're the ones that really make it profitable and successful. So we've seen that in so many parts of our economy for the last several decades. When there's a new technology out there, a lot of the very early adopters fail, but then it's the ones that come behind them that make it work. I think probably continue to see some of that. So I think that's one of the things that we constantly ask ourselves, how can we help these companies succeed, especially in these tough business climates. Yeah.

Harry Duran [26:09 - 26:13]: Especially with energy being such an important component of all these forms.

Matt Lohr [26:13 - 26:50]: We just, in our cabinet meeting this morning, we were talking about energy. And, I mean, we were a leader in data centers. Virginia here requires an enormous amount of energy, and, of course, these vertical farms, an enormous amount of energy. And, you know, we see more and more of the demand for EV's and we just need more energy to sustain our life. And so that's a major challenge. And so whether it's, how do we create the energy? Natural gas is a huge demand that we see that we can't seem to have enough of. But you're right, that's going to continue to be one of the major factors going forward is the cost of energy and the availability of energy. For sure.

Harry Duran [26:50 - 27:06]: Yeah, for sure. That'll be an ongoing conversation. So just lastly, I'd like to leave a couple of minutes at the end of these conversations for. Because of the audience is typically founders, you know, CEO's of vertical farm companies from around the world. What message do you have for those leaders in the space that are driving these innovations and leading the charge?

Matt Lohr [27:07 - 28:45]: Yeah, well, first of all, I would say come to Virginia, at least reach out to us. We feel like that we've got a pretty unique model. We've got an infrastructure and a foundation in place that we can build upon. And we're also growing state for as the analogy of Virginia wines, we have 350 wineries. Our Monticello Ava was recognized as the wine region of the the year for the world by wine. And I share that. To say that sometimes you say, well, we keep growing the number of wineries, that's bad because it's competition, but really they feed on each other because if somebody goes to one winery, they want to visit two or three. Right. And I think it's the same synergy we have in indoor farming. We've got lots of companies, but we can certainly support more. The research that we do through our advanced institute really helps all companies. So it's research that can be shared and help everyone. It's not just necessarily to benefit one particular company. So now that we have, and when we have, like, say, our energy capacity, that's really developed the support, then again, other companies can come in and take advantage of that. So the fact that we're less than 10% of all produce production is indoor. There's a tremendous opportunity. So I think it's, you know, rising tide lifts all both mentality that we really want to share with folks. So look at Virginia as a possibility. And also, thank you for my message to the CEO's is thank you for your belief in this space, for your creativity, for your investment, because it really is the future of food production and exciting to see it grow. And there's lots of hurdles and challenges, but I love it when these folks are able to get out there and really make it happen.

Harry Duran [28:46 - 29:11]: Well, thank you for making the time to come on the show. I was really excited to looking forward to this conversation because there's a lot of eyes on Virginia because of everything that's happening. So I would encourage the viewer and the listener to meet you or see you one of your panels at one of the upcoming conferences. I know you mentioned Greentech Amsterdam, and I know you're closely involved with the indoor Ag group for the CEA event in October. So is there any place you want to direct folks to kind of learn more about what's happening in Virginia?

Matt Lohr [29:11 - 29:48]: Probably the easiest thing if you google my name and governor of Virginia pops up on our website. Probably the easiest way that I could try to give you the whole address, but it might be easier just to google my name and CEA. And we'll also be at the indoor agtech conference in Chicago third week of June, and I'll be on a panel there as well. So for those folks that are in Chicago, part of that is there's a chance that you can have pre assigned meetings in advance. They have like, speed dating for CEA, and so we'll be there. I've got several members of our team there, so if someone that's going to be there wants to sit down with our team and learn more, please message us, and we'd love to be able to connect you with that as well. So.

Harry Duran [29:48 - 29:53]: Okay, I'll make sure all those links are in the show notes. I really appreciate you taking the time for this conversation.

Matt Lohr [29:53 - 29:57]: Thank you, Harry. Thanks for what you do, and hopefully we'll get a chance to meet you soon. Appreciate your interest.